Cool Weather
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The answers and opinions are those of the posters. Things may have changed
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Cool weather
paint
Keeping paint
warm
Frozen
Latex
New lot - cold weather
COOL
WEATHER PAINT
From: POP
Date: 11/21/99 9:27:39 PM
THE LABEL ON THE PAINT I NORMALLY USE (LATEX, BY GLIDDEN ) SAYS USE ONLY WHEN
TEMPS ARE 60 DEGREES OR HIGHER. THIS WEEK IN WISCONSIN, THE HIGHS ARE ONLY LOW
50'S. WILL IT STILL BE SAFE TO USE THIS PAINT ( IN OTHER WORDS, ARE THE
MANUFACTURERS EXTRA CAUTIOUS, JUST TO COVER THEMSELVES), AND IF I CAN'T USE IT,
ARE THERE ANY "LOWER TEMP" LATEXES THAT COULD BE RECOMMENDED???
From: Bookman
Date: 11/21/99 9:28:13 PM
White collar corporate mentality frequently demands service at the wrong time of
the year because they have a budget that must be spent before the end of the
year! Be sure to disclaim temperature related problems in your proposal. Be sure
to keep detailed records so you can track your successes and failures. That way,
you can help protect your reputation. Although all paint manufacturers and far
too many contractors think of proper temperature as being related to only the
temperature of the air, there are several other components that ultimately
determine whether your paint will last. Here are the other components, listed in
no particular order of importance: Pavement type: Asphalt or portland cement
concrete. If asphalt, is it reasonably black, oxidized gray or white, or sealed
with coal tar or asphalt emulsion? The darker the color of the pavement, the
more solar heat it will absorb. Sky: Clear, cloudy, overcast, etc. This affects
the amount of solar heat boost you can expect. Soil temperature: This is an
agricultural forecast generally given at a depth of 4 inches, and it's more
important than most sealcoaters and stripers realize. It determines what
temperature the pavement will reach during the day, and how cold it will get at
night. During the winter season, air temps may reach 60°F, but the slab of
pavement may remain at 30°F. It all depends on the temperature ranges of the
previous week, so don't overlook this. Shade: Some portions of a parking lot may
be shaded by trees or a building. Maybe you can paint part of the parking lot,
but not all of it. It may not be easy for you to take charge of the situation
and TELL YOUR CUSTOMER WHAT HE NEEDS TO KNOW, NOT WHAT HE WANTS TO HEAR! Solar
orientation: Does the parking lot slope to the south or southwest? Those
portions will be warmer than areas sloping north or east. Priority painting: Try
to paint with the sun as it tracks across the sky. Maybe you can only paint 1/2
or 1/3 of the lot each day to obtain complete dryness by sunset. If I was
working in your climate, I'd spend $200-300 for a point and shoot thermometer
gun and know what the surface temperature was before I painted. Remember, the
best contractors are lucky mainly because they engineer their good luck. Maybe
this sounds like a lot of work, but it really isn't. With a little practice, all
of this information will roll off your tongue with ease, and it will impress the
hell out of your customers, because very few of your competitors are going to
say it. You simply point out all the factors that will determine the success or
failure of the project and say, IN MY OPINION, IF WE PAINT TODAY, THERE IS A
____% CHANCE THE PAINT WILL SURVIVE THE WINTER SEASON IN SATISFACTORY CONDITION.
DO YOU AUTHORIZE ME TO PAINT TODAY AND ASSUME TOTAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE WORK?
Then get a signature on your written disclaimer. In other words, put the monkey
on your customers' backs where it belongs.
From: Freestate
Date: 11/21/99 9:28:38 PM
I painted a lot 3 years ago, I used paint by linear dynamics , their fast dry
waterborne. It was 30 degrees out and sunny, I recommended against painting but
they needed the job done to occupy the building. It went down well and still
looks good today. (normal wear and tear) The only place it didn’t stick was on
the ice.
From: Stripe
Date: 11/21/99 9:29:12 PM
We shot about 50 gallons of waterborne today, sunny, dry, 40 to 65f temp. Did
fine. The paint we used is Sherwin Willy Hot Line, their 1952D spec. We like
this paint. I don't think any paint company would recommend striping at 30
degrees with anything, especially waterbourne, but we have used chlorinated
rubber at that temp and it did fine as long as we kept our paint in a warm place
until we put it in the machine. When it gets cold it's too stiff to spray. Cold
don't seem to affect the hotline that way.
From: Don
Date: 11/21/99 9:29:41 PM
Cool weather is the time to switch from latex to chlorinated rubber type paint.
This paint is formulated to dry well in cooler temperatures. Nothing else works
better in the cool (35-65 degrees)temps. If specs require latex Sherwin-Williams
Set-Fast Acrylic is about as good as it gets, although it is still not
recommended for lower than 50 degrees we have used it in slightly cooler temps
with fairly good success.
From:
Date: 11/21/99 9:30:16 PM
There really is not any paint company who will say to use their paint below 50
degrees. 50 degrees is the lowest there is.
I have found its more the temp of the asphalt then the air
temp that makes it last longer. We did a job where it was 65 during the day and
35 at night and the paint did not hold up at all, and its put down in the
warmest part of the day. If you spray when its cold, don’t expect the paint to
hold up as it would in the summer.
Jim
From: jpanz
Date: 11/25/99 8:56:58 PM
I was reading the spec sheet from Sherwin Williams on their low voc oil paint.
The sheet says it must be 40 degrees or higher. This is the only paint I have
seen with a 40 degree min.
Jim
From: CW
Date: 11/29/99 9:51:12 AM
Remember that surface temp and air temp varies. If it is below 40 deg. on a
sunny day, measure the surface temp with an infrared thermometer, it could be as
high as 60 deg. or more, especially on asphalt. Go to
http://www.grainger.com They have a new raytek that is smaller and less
expensive. (about $100.00)
From: CW
Date: 11/29/99 10:10:51 AM
The part number for the thermometer is 4XX06. Git one, its a great tool!
KEEPING PAINT WARM
From: ACE
Date: 12/1/99 2:13:28 AM
I ALMOST ALWAYS LIKE TO SPRAY CHLORINATED RUBBER PAINT. I CAN GET GOOD LINES
EVEN IN THE UPPER 3O'S IF I KEEP MY PAINT WARM OR I CAN THIN IT BACK TO NORMAL
VISCOSIT AS IT THICKENS DUE TO THE COLD OUTSIDE TEMPERATURE.(I'D MUCH RATHER
KEEP IT WARM THAN THIN IT HEAVILY)
MY QUESTION IS, HAS ANYONE USED EITHER A WARMING PAD TO
KEEP A STRIPING MACHINE'S 5 GALLON PAINT CAN WARM OR SOME KIND OF WARMING BOX TO
COIL 50' OF PAINT HOSE THROUGH?
I GUESS YOU'D HAVE TO HAVE A 12 VOLT BATTERY & POSSIBLY A
DC CONVERTER, SO WOULD IT BE MORE WORK THAN IT'S WORTH? PLUS, IT MIGHT BE A
DANGEROUS SET UP WITH PAINT FUMES? BUT -- IT WOULD BE COOL TO BE ABLE TO KEEP
YOUR PAINT WARM!
From: ytoes
Date: 12/1/99 12:46:27 PM
You can try a couple of things. Sleep with it or get you an inverter, 300 watt
minimum and buy a drum heater. INDCO part no. DH-5-115-TS at 800-942-4383.
I personally store my paint in a warm area of the shop and
use hot water heater jackets when I carry it to the job. You can make about 3 to
4 can jackets out of one hot water heater jacket.
Frozen
Latex
From: City
Date: 12/17/99 7:22:39 PM
Last year I striped a lot in which most of the lines flaked off. I assumed I
must have used one of my "old stock" buckets that might have frozen over the
winter. Can anyone shed some light on what actually happens to latex when it has
been frozen and thawed, why it doesn't adhere to the pavement? It may be
elementary to you but humor me and throw me some technical advice... thanks
guys.
From: jpanz
Date: 12/17/99 8:55:25 PM
I think because it damages the solids in the paint itself. Since striping paint
is almost 60 % solids, the solids will not adhere after a freeze.
I gave it a shot. Jim
From: Ken
Date: 12/20/99 11:21:30 AM
Just wondering...did you stripe it with an airless or air atomized rig? One
reason I lean toward airless is because the paint is applied at higher pressure.
Seems to me it would cause the paint to stay better because it is injected into
crooks, crannies and pores of the surface. Any other opinions guys?
From: CW
Date: 12/20/99 4:27:24 PM
This was explained to me a couple of times but the details were not as important
as knowing that you shouldn't use the paint once it has frozen. All the
molecular doohickeys get screwed when frozen. Kinda like nuken 'em. It can't
handle the expansion and retraction. Ever stuck a bottle of dr. pepper in the
freezer and forgot about it. Here is a little piece from the paint guy. Below 50
degrees, latex paints dry more slowly, especially when high humidity is present.
This hinders coalescence, which can lead to poor film-forming, lack of surface
adhesion and premature paint failure.
Some manufacturers offer latex paints that can be applied
at temperatures as low as 36 degrees F. These specially formulated products
contain coalescing agents that aid in film-forming during lower temperatures.
Check with your local independent paint retailer for information about these
products.
Another thing to consider about seasonal painting is the
amount of daylight. When the days are short, there is less daylight available to
aid in drying. If you're using a solvent-based paint, which dries by oxidation,
daylight is especially critical. So, be sure to paint early in the day so that
light is present to add in the drying process.
Also consider the effect of heavy dew. Humidity affects the
drying time of all paints, but especially latexs. Most manufacturers recommend
that at least two hours be allowed for paint to dry before sunset if cool
temperatures and heavy dew are expected that evening.
Finally, keep in mind that cooler temperatures may extend
the time before the paint reaches serviceability or hardness.
Hope this helps, don't mean squat, but it'll help you
remember not to do it again!
Ya'll have a Merry Christmas.
Ytoes
New lot - cold weather
From: Joey
Date: 11/21/99 9:05:06 PM
Construction of a new lot is scheduled to be finished during the last week of
November. It must be striped for about 25 spaces. Which paint would work best if
the low's will be in the 30's and high's in the 50's on new asphalt. Alkyd or
chlorinated rubber or something else? Thank you for any assistance.
From: jpanz
Date: 11/21/99 9:05:42 PM
Try To stripe the lot right after the paver finished. The asphalt will stay warm
for hours. If it is warm out and the pavement is warm the latex paint should dry
completely before the temps fall. Also, use the largest tip your machine can
handle, the fresh asphalt will suck the paint into it real fast. I have used a
.23 tip and the lines hold up real good. Some people do not like to use oil
based paint on new asphalt because it causes cracking on the edge of the lines.
But if it is cold and it must be done use oil.
Good Luck
From: Richard -and it's cold in Oregon
Date: 11/9/00 11:11:38 AM
It snowed lightly last night and it is forecast to be in
the 30's at night - 40's daytime for the next week. I have four jobs scheduled
right now all on new asphalt or new sealcoating. So apparently I must use
oil(alkyd) paint to deal with the temp(when a warmer day comes along.)
But...later on in this discussion group everyone says never use oil on these
surfaces sooo - Catch 22. What do I do?
From:
Date: 11/21/99 9:06:17 PM
Hey Joey!
Don't use either one the paints while the temperature is in
the 30's. Wait until it is at least in the 50's with the sun out and use the
water base. You don't want the solvents in the chlorinated rubber to screw up
the new asphalt. You must tell the customer that you will need to come back in a
couple of months for another coat. The new asphalt will suck up all the paint.
From: TomTom
Date: 11/22/99 10:53:33 AM
I just finished a lot for the hospital yesterday. Temp was
45. I don't know about anyone else but I keep my paint warm in my basement until
I go to stripe the lot this time of year. The paint isn't thick and it sprays
fine. Hope this helps.
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