Note: these archives were compiled from past Parking Lot Planet Forums. The answers and opinions are those of the posters. Things may have changed since then, so be sure to get up to date information from the current Parking Lot Planet forum
OSHA, MSDS SHEETS, FEDERAL, and STATE Requirements
Date: 9/22/00 1:36:22 AM
Well guys I'm sorry to say I'm really showing my ignorance here, but I've wanted to post this important question for along time. What do I need to carry in my truck/trailer to keep from getting "fined" from the above agency's. The correct info is very important I believe for all of us. MSDS sheets, proper storage and marking of solvents, gasoline, safety vests, first-aid kit, fire extinguisher, hard hats, safety glasses, gloves, ear plugs, etc........What do I need to be "Legal" with everybody???
Date: 9/22/00 7:47:57 AM
Sounds like you just about have it Fonz. The only thing missing in your list was your training schedule. You should have a yearly training system set up for your employees as well as weekly or daily training (traffic control, dealing with all the chemicals, high pressure, heat, slips trips and falls, working at night etc. etc.). This training needs to be documented and signed by each employee in attendance - might even save your ass in case one tries to sue you if he/she gets hurt on your dime and tries to claim they were not trained.
One more thing, you do need a written safety plan that outlines your company safety policy and what to do to deal with the hazards you might encounter in your work. Carry this with you in your truck, your trailer and one at the office. We have one in every company vehicle.
One last thing Fonz, you mentioned the MSDS Sheet.. AND YES I AM PICKING ON YOU...do you also go to the ATM Machine... c'mon, think about it material safety data sheet? - I couldn't resist Sorry!!
Date: 9/22/00 9:24:34 AM
Randy's right you've got most of it covered. You do need a hazardous materials communication program for your employees but it doesn't have to be on the truck. Your workers comp. company will probably do a free check to see if you need anything else in the way of employee gear and your state DOT should know about truck requirements. As for covering EVERYTHING just accept the fact that OSHA like the IRS can always find something wrong. Usually it's your attitude of trying to cover it all that helps avoid fines and such. (DOT requirements for the truck can change in a heartbeat if you cross state lines.) PS: We carry a couple of "real" respirators just in case when we're using solvents or leaded paints, It always seems to make the inspectors happy to see them.
Date: 9/22/00 11:54:42 AM
Here's a few more. I have my solvents locked in a roll away tool chest in the trailer. I doubt if it would be considered "fire-proof" Is that good enough? And gasoline. Do I need a fire-proof cabinet for that, or is just a legit safety can ok setting on the floor? I doubt it. And Water for changing colors. I believe a separate can labeled "Water" is required. That’s what I'm getting at guys......We need a check-list, item by item that all of us should have to stay legit with all the agency's My sincere thanks to all who reply to this important issue.
Date: 9/22/00 3:29:09 PM
I know in New Jersey it is illegal to carry any type of gas cans in an enclosed trailer. The cans must be properly secured to the outside of the trailer.
Date: 10/10/00 8:50:30 PM
You’re right Fonz, everything must have a label on it. So carry Old Mil CANS in your cooler instead of long necks. Those paper labels may soak off by the start of the second shift.
Seriously, I don’t believe you’re showing your ignorance. I believe it’s due to the fact that the management staff at Pavement Mag & Expo have failed to address their leadership role in providing this type of industry-specific business management information. If you have the past few years of Pavement w/Expo promotional inserts, you can confirm this for yourself. In my opinion, virtually all articles & seminars seem locked into the “mindset” that we are blue collar PMC's first & foremost & business managers somewhere way down the line. And in fairness, that may be the case for many of us.
Yet in reality, Pavement & Expo are the only common links most of us have within the PM industry. So it seems odd that the magazine wouldn’t feature a regular series of articles regarding compliance forms & examples their readers could use as a guide for writing their own. And imagine how many of us would sign up for a premium-priced seminar (maybe 1/2 day) to walk away with examples to follow!
By providing that, Pavement/Expo leadership would take us collectively in the direction we need to go so we may be uniformly compliant in a rapidly changing, increasingly regulated industry. If it wasn’t for my 25+ years in the chemical lawn care business, I probably wouldn’t have a clue about the requirements you mentioned. However, because we are licensed & need to attend a certain number of classes (all day long) within a 3-year period (or be retested), we stay on top of these things.
I carry a 3-ring binder, 2 inches thick in each truck with each MSD sheet inserted in a clear view sheet holder. The binder is carried inside a closed plastic bag to keep it clean. When I was in charge of training for a local lawn care association, we provided each member with a binder that provided a cover sheet labeled “Material Safety Data Sheets & Tank Mix Concentrations.” The other forms we provided our members made us so much more compliant than Kentucky state laws (a real joke) required that soon the regulatory inspectors would just wave to us instead of wasting their time and ours. Constructing & perfecting your binder is a great winter season project.
It seems unlikely any one contractor could deal effectively with such a topic, but I think a good 3 or 4 person panel could really offer an Expo audience a lot of guidance for their money.
Date: 10/12/00 8:39:21 PM
I forgot to mention the benefit of joining your local Homebuilders Association. Our local assoc. actually has an inspector who will come to your place of business & see if you are compliant with the rules commonly enforced in your area. It's a great benefit to you for relatively few dollars each year. In addition, you'll get to stick a really large membership decal on your vehicle & may discover group insurance rates that can save much more than the cost of the dues. Best of all, you may be the only striping/sealcoating contractor in the group. That brings you in direct contact with many PO/PMs & opens up a whole new niche in referral contacts with the established contractors. Remember, just because it's called the Homebuilders Assoc. doesn't mean they don't have members who build condos, apts. & various commercial structures.
As a purely personal opinion, if ANY association doesn't offer its members group insurance coverage, it's probably more of a social/professional "club" or an ego trip for its founder or "control group." Always look for the useable BENEFITS you'll receive & ask for a copy of their by-laws. You may discover the by-laws tend to favor only those in office.
"WET PAINT" sign
Date: 9/4/00 10:16:20 PM
Anyone know where I can get a decent size sign that says "Wet Paint" or Wet paint on Road" or something to that effect??? I've looked in my catalogs and can't find anything unless I want to spend an extra $100 to have one made up special. One of those orange 3 footers on a stand would really be the ticket.
Date: 9/5/00 6:58:58 AM
Have you tried someone locally that makes signs? I just had one made last week - 36" X 36" that reads Caution Wet Paint Ahead - cost me $56. I mounted it on a 8' square post and slide it into a bracket on the back of my truck when I need it.
Date: 9/5/00 7:00:35 AM
Why don't you just go to your local sign shop and have one made?
From: After Midnight
Date: 9/5/00 12:31:16 PM
Do you think it would help? My idea is to cut out 24" letters, paint them yellow and lay them across the entrance. I bet they would get run over by 3 out of 4 cars, just like any little old lady can fit her car between cones that are more than 6 feet apart.
Date: 9/5/00 2:18:17 PM
Give Carrier & Gable (Farmington Hills )a call 248-477-8700 and talk to Jim Hoving. They sell MDI signs and they may have a standard sign to fit your needs. If they don't have a standard one for you, call Calender & Dornbos (Charlotte) (800) 922-0029 and have one made on Aluminum backing rather than heavy 3/4" plywood. If you get it from them and have to pick it up, give me a call and I'll meet you somewhere to have a few cold ones.
From: If You Can Read This You're Too Close
Date: 9/5/00 2:33:23 PM
That's what I’m gonna have made, a 6 x 8 foot sign I can lean against my truck that says " if you can read this you’re too close" or just continue to use my old stand by which is custom made yellow crime scene tape that I string across the entrances , it says, "wet paint do not cross"
From: MI Striper
Date: 9/6/00 3:38:14 PM
Fonz, Next time you're driving through a construction zone, check out the names on the barricades or signs. The same guys that rent that stuff sell signs. I can't think of anybody off the top of my head on that side of the state but on the west side, there's Rathco in Kalamazoo, WorkSafe in Grand Rapids and Spartan in Lansing. They may have offices in your neck of the woods or can tell you who does.
Date: 11/10/00 6:49:46 PM
I just got a hold of a CAUTION sign and painted WET PAINT on it with stencils. It has made a real difference in the number of "incidents" I have had. Seems especially useful at fast food places where there is a constant traffic flow almost 24 hours a day.
We have NO rights
Date: 9/28/00 2:22:32 PM
Speaking of cones.... I had the entrance to a parking lot COMPLETLY blocked with cones, I looked up and what do you know, a car is driving across the lot. I approached the guy and said at least you could have parked your car outside and walked in he responds i can do whatever I want, I’m a constable then he flashed his badge. I responded you are putting myself and my crew's safety at risk and as far as I’m concerned you’re trespassing! he said then call the cops, so I said would you be kind enough to give me your name? he said no and I said then there you have it you’re nothing! he took off after I got his plate info. then I called the cops, told them the whole story. they said nothing we can do, no crime committed, which I knew but just wanted to find out what my rights are. NONE! couldn’t even file a complaint because there was no crime committed. Has anyone had a similar experience?
Date: 9/28/00 4:47:20 PM
How about if you have blocked off an entrance to a mall/shopping center but there is a turning lane for the mall on the city street. Are we required to place DOT type signs and barrels out in the city street? Or can we block off any private property we wish? People were making the left hand turn into the mall and driving over our cones and one lady saw a police officer and complained to him that we should have signs out in the street. However, he did nothing but ask us how long we would be working there. I realize the laws are probably different around the country, but any input?
Date: 9/28/00 7:48:29 PM
Billy, you are absolutely right. You do need to have turn lanes blocked that allow ingress to parking lots. However, be sure to check with the traffic engineering dept before you do to get their holy water sprinkled on your plan. The best way to get that is to go in with your problem and ask for their help. The Barney Fife syndrome runs rampant in municipalities.
Date: 9/29/00 3:21:15 AM
I'm surprised it was a male.........here is what I've found to be true........if a vehicle can fit..some how...someway between any two cones......then they are entitled to enter any blocked-off area...........don't in any way inconvenience them......they are on a mission from God...and blessed with special privileges to do as they wish...No matter what, you screwed up!!! you are at fault..you are the bone-head !!!!.....Fall on your knees and beg forgiveness for your illiteracy!!!
Date: 9/29/00 7:24:49 AM
The best that we have encountered is people getting into our closed lot and after a good ass chewing (it takes a lot to piss me off but they manage), they then ask "how do I get out?" my usual answer is THE SAME DAMN WAY YOU CAME IN - - AND DON'T DRIVE OVER ANY OF MY NEW LINES ON THE WAY!#@$*#
Really though, we use type I or type II barricades with tape between them on those busy lots. This works better than anything else we have tried except for posting an armed sentry at each opening.
Date: 9/29/00 8:51:29 AM
You guys must do things a lot different from us. We use fast drying paints (7-10 minutes) and seldom close a lot to traffic... we also do a lot of 24 hr. locations, truck stops, supermarkets, etc. that can't be closed. We simply post a worker or two or a few cones to "guard" the freshest stripes. However sealcoating-repairs is another story. I'm also amazed when I find out many people still use 18" cones. (They stop nothing and kids on bicycles love to steal them)We have had the best success with 42" DOT cones. These will satisfy the street-turn lane blocking requirements. (The distance back you must block and spacing is usually determined by speed limits-check local req.) Also you're right, you can't leave them an inch to squeeze through and barricade tape between them seems to help the most. Very few people (other than trucks) will just run over a 42" cone since they appear more solid and are visible above the hoods. Usually we just go to these lengths with sealing/striping or repair excavations. Things that will need to be blocked for some period of time, longer than striping. We're currently doing a truck stop where we can't even section the lot. We have a couple of extra guys who watch for a rig to move when the driver wakes up, comes out of the showers or whatever... then we run over to paint those stripes...back and forth all day. The same for their 24 high traffic restaurant.
Date: 11/10/00 6:38:00 PM
This has been a great discussion! We all have stories to tell I'm sure. Like the driver who thought my cones would make a good slalom course and began weaving in and out, in and out! In the end I have learned to just laugh it off - unless there has been some real damage. It does seem that I have had fewer problems when I put up fewer cones. Sometimes they just confuse people - especially the elderly. I also string ribbon or line between my cones to help keep out the intruders.( Line seems to work best - any wind at all will blow cone and ribbon over) People are very interesting creatures.
Date: 9/29/00 10:46:31 AM
Been there and done that. We do have some rights regarding traffic. If the person is speeding or has been insultive toward you because you do your doing your job. The first is reckless driving, this one includes not being able to use the drive lanes for what they are meant for. The second is verbal assault. The worst lot that I have to work on is one at the college stadium here in town. The foot ball players race across the lot after practice every nite. I have found out the solution for that problem, we just lock the gates. These boys have driven over paint lines, stencils and hoses. The coaches have no control between the practice field and the locker room. It is funny to see them race up to the gate only to find it has been locked and must go around. The head coach has addressed the problem of locking the gate with me and I expressed that his players would drive around due to the speed and lack of concern they had shown to the crew on the lot. I won at least this situation the others no way. Bob
Date: 9/29/00 4:17:33 PM
In my experience in the construction field, if someone crosses through the barricades they automatically loose their insurance on their vehicle. And if they have an accident they just get to pass go without collecting $200, if you know what I mean. Now this is in the state of Kansas. Now on the other side of that quarter I have know to have a quality control person that also acts as a traffic control person. And I have seen the select few that handle this job throw hard hats for example at cars, and holler at people. But if you check into the laws of your state just check to see what liability of fault could be laid upon the person crossing through the barricades. Ohh, that's another option. Type 3 barricades and tape running between them. Let tem hit those 2x6's and see how much they holler. The other option is that we ask the hierarchies of the trade shows to come up with a traffic control 101 class for us all. Have a great day.
From: Bookman & Bookwoman
Date: 9/30/00 5:36:37 PM
Is there anything worse than a wannabe cop? The sheriff's dept in Louisville used to issue "honorary" badges to their cronies. These people had no authority and because of misuse like the type you mention, they discontinued the practice. Try to find out what departments in your town have "constables," (i.e., sheriff, etc.) and file a formal written complaint re harassment on the job site. If you are young, or look young, that could also be a problem. We used to have a nephew (age 18) working for us & if he was by himself on any part of a job site, invariably a cop would pull up & start hassling him. When either of us "old" folks walked up, the cop would usually make a joke & drive on. Apparently on a slow day it's a "fun" thing to do. Hope you pursue this to prevent it from happening to you or anyone else in the future.
From: Kenny B
Date: 10/26/00 10:59:34 PM
I have that problem every other day, it does not matter if I put up cones or rope off entrances, they always find a way in. I have always wanted to take 4-5 of my traffic cones and fill them with cement, then place them randomly in line with my other cones. Altho I would probably get sued for it, it sure would be fun to see one of those people who can't figure out what cones mean run into my cement filled cone at 30 mph. It is true though, I have called the police before to report a vehicle that ran over my cones and proceeded to run across my freshly painted speed bumps and tracked yellow paint across the newly sealcoated lot. The police told me there was nothing they could do. In the end its us the Stripers who have no rights!
From: GE Striping
Date: 3/15/00 6:36:49 PM
A contractor I do striping for has asked for a copy of our safety program (which we don't have). Has any one written or implemented a safety program I sure could use some help on this matter.
Date: 3/17/00 11:35:21 AM
Yeah... I remember the days when hardhats weren't even a major concern on most projects. Being union, we're required at least 30 hrs. a year of safety training, and we must have a daily on-site meeting with our apprentices to point out potential hazards, which we must then denote on our work orders. sheesh Our company is now required to have a written safety plan and agenda. If it would help, I can send a copy, either by fax or mail, for you to use as an example.
Date: 3/21/00 7:50:18 AM
Not only should you have a written safety program an employee policy and procedure manual is almost essential. Also don't forget OHSHA (federal law) REQUIRES you to have a written hazardous materials communication program. (And everything we stripers use is considered hazardous).
Date: 4/20/00 12:09:36 AM
What do you guys do to get rid of your colored water. I have about 20 gallons?
Date: 4/20/00 10:47:06 AM
While I fully respect the differences of opinion on cleaning machines etc. from my peers I will give you some firm and unjoking advice. If by colored water you mean the leftovers from clean ups DO NOT pour it on the ground or down the drain. I can't imagine a local code that would allow this. Especially if the paint was yellow and had lead in it. You can be in BIG trouble with the EPA, here in TX also the TNRCC but where ever you are with the EPA and a lot of those other "initial" agency types. Here we leave the water shallow in buckets (2-3" ea.) in the sun on a paved surface until the water evaporates. Then we are allowed to dispose of the completely dried chips that might remain with our area disposal company. Unless you generate a whole lot you don't want to hire a commercial company to pick it up (about $400 per 55 gallons) because then you are assigned a federal hazardous waste permit number and the EPA will watch you forever.