Line Removal and Black Out
Note: these archives were compiled from past Parking Lot Planet Forums. The answers and opinions are those of the posters. Things may have changed since then, so be sure to get up to date information from the current Parking Lot Planet forum
Date: 11/7/00 2:42:56 PM
I need input on a way to remove stripes on concrete. This is not an error on my part, but a redesign of layout by the owner. They must be removed and not painted over. There are over 2000' so the method of removal must be fairly fast and economical. Also, if the Bookpeople are reading this, I would like information on how to acquire the Striper's Bible. I have been involved in this business for several years, yet am always interested in learning. Thank you
Date: 11/7/00 7:15:51 PM
I had a similar problem a few weeks ago. At the time a chemical solution seemed preferable & the host of this site Robert Liles was good enough to supply me with the name of two products & of the manufacturers. If you go back a few weeks to "Major Error" on October 22nd this info is there. In the end due to environmental concerns I had to resort to shot blasting. The surface was broom finished (fairly rough) & it took several passes to remove the painted lines & markings. The end result was very acceptable & damage to the surface was minimal. I hope this is of some help to you.
Date: 11/7/00 9:21:27 PM
I have removed lines two ways, One is with a grinder that does a good job but leaves the teeth marks, the second is I rent a shot blaster from my rental store. That does a better job but unless you have power, you will need a generator.
Date: 11/7/00 11:52:13 PM
Water blast with sand injection...does a good job...kinda slow...mess to clean up. Air compressed sand blast....does a great job...fast....more dangerous to public...still have to pick up the sand. Grinder (scarifier) like jpanz says...leaves marks but fast. Chemical stripper ...not always reliable....does ok job especially with water blast after application....greater environmental concerns Shot blaster.....haven't used one yet.
My choice for 2k ft of stripes....air sand blast for speed and better results.
Date: 12/19/00 9:31:06 PM
I'm a power washer and got my first call to remove old stripes and stenciling. Do you guys normally call in a power washer to do this or do you just got over the old stripes?
They want me to replace the stripes and stenciling. Can I rent or buy a cheap machine or should I subcontract the job?
Date: 12/20/00 8:32:30 AM
I forgot to ask for tips on removing the stripes. They're on asphalt. Should I use a chemical, hot water, cold water??
Date: 12/20/00 8:44:58 AM
Just look back up this board a ways for recent answers to all your questions. In brief: First if you water blast the stripes off you will damage the asphalt unless the stripes were not very good in the first place. Second my advice is to master one business before starting another. You are still having to ask questions about pressure washing. It doesn't sound like a good time to take on the striping business, which if you read up this board, you will find is more complicated than pressure washing and not nearly as easy as it looks.
Date: 12/20/00 10:05:58 PM
Date: 9/9/00 3:25:57 AM
Am bidding a job which requires removal of existing markings on asphalt pavement; can't paint them out, can't leave impressions of old markings, and can't damage surface. Can burn off using "an approved method utilizing excess oxygen". Need some words of advice from anyone who has done this. Thanks.
Date: 9/9/00 11:39:06 AM
I'd advise walking away from this one. They're asking the impossible. If you get the paint hot enough to "burn off" you will also burn the asphalt binder underneath it. Then you'll have either "damaged the surface" or at the least created ghost lines where the heated asphalt has discolored. Sounds like you've got one of those architects or engineers that I love to hate. They think they're to smart for their own good. Surface planing is the most common removal method probably followed by water blasting. If you know someone with a Billy Goat Slot Machine router you could try the steel brush attachment. It would work if the paint's close to worn out. If the paint's good it would work you to death and wear out too many expensive steel brushes.
Date: 9/9/00 10:06:53 PM
Thought about walking - decided to take the other approach; put in an exorbitant bid to cover the risk inherent in overly restrictive and unrealistic specs. Unfortunately, this is the second time I've seen that particular spec - it's becoming a standard "cut & paste" for DOD spec writers. I've been on both sides of that particular fence - but I at least read what I was copying for a reality check. Thanks for the input.
Date: 9/12/00 7:57:31 PM
Good for you. This is a "head game," & I believe you are poised to win it if you play this out psychologically, which is what they are attempting to do to you. I would consider submitting an alternative bid (since you've already submitted one), entitled "Lower Cost Alternative Bid." Bid the job as a sandblast job performed by a subcontractor and disclaim any liability whatsoever for damage to the pavement.
Just because a prospective customer writes the specs for a job doesn't mean you can't submit your own proposal and your terms under which you will perform the work. Submit whatever proposal you want & what’re terms you want & include a signature acceptance line for the DOD rep to accept "your" proposal. And if they accept "your" proposal the job will be done according to your terms. If this is the second time you've seen this, you may be experiencing the influence of a "CONSULTANT" who attempts to earn a living by writing proposals that are stacked against reputable contractors to satisfy their own egos. This is your opportunity to make a pre-emptive strike against people who don't have their act together quite as well as they think they do. We've done it lots of times & always got the jobs because we essentially called their bluff. Look, here's the deal. They want the work done & they don't want some hoodlum contractor to screw up the pavement. It's obvious from your post that you are mentally superior to the DOD person. So bluff. A sandblast shot recovery job is the least damaging of all removal methods PROVIDED the pavement is structurally sound, i.e., no oil damage or alligatoring on asphalt or spalling on portland cement concrete. The person you are dealing with is unlikely to the REAL decision maker. When their Plan A fails to entrap a knowledgeable contractor, they resort to Plan B, etc. You have one other alternative which you cannot exercise now, & that was to put the monkey on their back & request a more detailed bid form that details PRECISELY how they want the job done. By the way, if this was on portland cement concrete suffering chloride damage from ice melt products, the corrosion damage is usually confined to the top 1/2 inch of the concrete. A 3,500 psi pressure washer with a 0° rotary tip won't cut much deeper than the existing depth of the spalling. Good luck. P.S. If you have the occasion to speak to your contact person, here is what I would suggest you say. "Let me make sure I've got this bid spec straight. You don't want the pavement damaged, right? Unfortunately, it seems that you don't know how to prevent this damage, and that your pavement has been damaged previously under similar circumstances by some professional who lacked professional knowledge & experience. However, no one in your department apparently knows the right way to handle this job to prevent even minor damage. So, let me suggest some options to you that involve minimal damage. The least damaging removal of the stripes by using a sandblast procedure in which the shot is recovered. It will remove not only paint, but also any sealer beneath the paint. That means that you're going to be able to see an outline of the stripe, but the structural integrity of the pavement will be preserved. In contrast, a water-blast/sandblast procedure may cause significant erosion to the asphalt binder in the pavement. Every other method of removal poses a potential threat to the pavement that you are trying to avoid, so why don't you rewrite the specs to state the work will be done by the sandblast shot recovery system & be done with it, fair enough?" Then say nothing until he responds, no matter how long the silence is. If you speak before he speaks, it is unlikely you will win the bid. If he speaks first, it is highly probable you will get the bid. This is a sophisticated sales technique that is highly effective if you know how to work it. If you win the bid, you will likely get their future work because you are now a "problem solver."
From: MN striper
Date: 9/11/00 1:58:19 PM
There is no way to do this without some trace of the old lines being present, there is sure to be surface cracking where the existing paint is present, I have had luck using a paint striper called TM 4 it is a gel stripper, dump several gallons of stripper in a pail and use a 4" roller to liberally apply, wait 30 min. at least, or try a small section first and see what happens, THEN, using a 3500 psi or better power washer with a broad spray pattern blast the paint away. This is a water soluble product and would also require the use of protective gear as I found out it burns like mad when it contacts skin. It may take two or three applications to do but it should work, I have charged at the highest $5.00 per foot for this and some bozos still want it done. You may want to test this on another lot before you accept the job, the only other advice would be to have the lot overlayed, or bid it at $15.00 to $20.00 per foot and go home, they won't call.
Date: 10/22/00 2:49:37 PM
Any high tech suggestions for removing painted lines from new concrete pavement? The surface is broom finished, (not smooth) and is located on the upper floors of an indoor parkade. Eradication, painting over & shot blasting are not preferred options. Alkyd paint was used on the project. About 54 lines have to be removed. Any high performance chemical paint removers & the name of the manufacturer would be of prime interest & appreciated.
From: Robert Liles
Date: 10/22/00 5:21:09 PM
Of all the paint removers we have used over the years, caustics seem to work best on traffic paint. We have used Deitrich Technologies Multi-Layer paint remover. For more information call Diedrich Products, Phone: 800-323-3565, Fax: 414-764-6993. I want to try a similar product from Dominion Restoration http://www.domrest.com/ . the advantage to caustics is that they break down into a non-toxic biodegradable salt that can be washed away with high pressure water. There is no "stripper" smell when applying. Just be careful and wear protective gear. One little speck of the stuff will eat a hole in your skin.
Date: 11/30/00 3:46:05 AM
OK, I WAS FACED WITH THE SAME PROBLEM A GUY WAS AWHILE BACK WHEN HE POSTED ABOUT LINE REMOVAL, I HAD ONE GUY WHO EXPECTED ME TO BE A MIND READER WHEN I RESTRIPED HIS LOT. OUT OF 30 SPACES 7 WERE ANGLED, AND SO I RESTRIPED THEM LIKE THEY WERE, THEN HE DIDN'T WANT TO PAY BECAUSE HE WANTED THEM ANGLED IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION, BECAUSE THAT'S HOW THE CARS WERE PARKED WHEN I BIDDED, WELL THERE WERE PROBABLY ONLY 2 CARS AT MOST SO HOW WAS I TO KNOW, TO ANGLE IT THE OTHER WAY? THEN I HAD ONE GUY WITH 4 STRIPES WHO WANTED AN EXTRA SPACE ADDED AFTER I PAINTED, "MY MISTAKE I DIDN'T HEAR HIM" IF HE SAID IT AT ALL. ANYWAY, I WASN'T ABLE TO LOCATE THE STUFF ROBERT TALKED ABOUT, AT LEAST ONE WANTED $179.00 5 GALLON PAIL, NOT WORTH IT FOR MY APPLICATION AND THE OTHER WAS NOT AVAILABLE BUT TO SHERWINN-WILLIAMS WHO CLAIMED AT 2 LOCATIONS THEY NEVER HEARD OF IT, FINALLY I BOUGHT SOME GOOD $23.00 PER GALLON STUFF, IT DID A DECENT JOB, BUT ALL I HAD AVAILABLE TO ME WAS A WIRE BRUSH, SO 4 LINES TOOK AN HOUR AND PLENTY OF WATER.
NOW I HEAR THAT THE BEST WAY TO GET THIS UP IS WITH A "STRIPE GRINDER" SO WHERE CAN I BUY ONE AT A WHOLESALE OR CONTRACTOR'S PRICE, I DEAL WITH SOME COMPANIES WHO HAVE YOUR BASIC CRACK ROUTERS AND CLEANERS, BUT NO GRINDER, SO HELP ME OUT HERE BECAUSE I KNOW THE HIGHWAY DEPT.'S USE THEM, I ALSO HAVE A JOB COMING UP THAT REQUIRE'S A NEW LAY-OUT AND THE OLD STRIPES, TAKEN-UP, SO CAN ANY-ONE THAT MAY DO THIS ALSO TELL ME HOW MUCH TO CHARGE, I WOULD LIKE TO CHARGE PER STRIPE TO RE-MOVE THE OLD PAINT.
Date: 11/30/00 9:10:00 AM
If you're concerned about affording a airless machine (or going with a Tru-Line type rig) don't even think about grinders. You would be doing it backwards to buy a stripe remover before you buy a good striper. Check the rental yards for the one job you need to bid. Usually the machine rent isn't bad but you have to buy the grinding head. If so, be sure to keep and store the head so you can use it next time you rent. (If I remember right, Robert has a previous post a little way back answering a question like yours about Tru-Lines)
Date: 11/30/00 3:32:33 PM
THANKS, I CAN'T SEEM TO FIND ONE FOR RENT AROUND HERE, WHAT TYPE AND BRAND MACHINE AM I LOOKING FOR? I WAS TOLD A SANDER WITH 15" DISC WOULD WORK,BUT I WOULD RATHER USE THE STRIPE GRINDER. I WAS ALSO TOLD A CONCRETE SAW WITH A WIRE BRUSH ATTACHMENT WOULD WORK, THEN ANOTHER GUY AT THE RENTAL CENTER SAID NO..
Date: 11/30/00 6:41:01 PM
The equipment that your are looking for is called a concrete plain. Here in Kansas they run about 150. per day with the grinding head. Bob
Date: 11/30/00 6:43:45 PM
For some reason I'm drawn to reply to your posts even though I know I'm sticking my neck out and should just shut up and observe the others. Here's what I see as your most valuable asset.....ambition... a great work ethic...and the ability to work, work, work..... Your limitations are the fundamentals of striping and running a small business. #1.If you can possibly get your money back or your deposit for the True-Line do it. For the price of a new True-line you should be able to get an old air machine that will do a much better job. #2 You cannot work 4 or 5 hours for 50 bucks. You need to set a minimum fee......my guess for you would be about $75........when you equipment and skill increases, increase your minimum fee. Just because some party store only has 5 parking places out front doesn't mean the job is worth only 20 bucks...........the job is worth at least $75 and you better not be there more then 2 hours. Let the party store owner try to paint his own lines one time with a roller and tape and he will be more then glad to spend 75$ to have it done. #3 you need to get a decent paint at a decent price. Check out your nearest Sherwin Williams dealer.Let him know you are new but intend to be around awhile.Retail price for traffic paint is about 20 to 25$ a gallon.......BUT!!!...most here on this site pay from $7 to 10$ a gallon.....so......get a good traffic paint to start with and don't pay over $10 dollars a gallon for it..... If you're on this site you at least have money for a computer and internet access....so....maybe you have the money for decent equipment too....forget the True-Line.........sometimes schools, hospitals,even municipalities have striping machines setting the corner of some garage that noone knows how to use....you would be surprised whats out there...LQQK!!!!..investigate.....try to find a used airless machine if you can..... Finally........not because he is a good friend,..consider ordering Bookmans Book.......20 years of experience for less then 100 bucks to me is just invaluable...... Again, you ambition and enthusiasm will carry you thru........you just need some good advise and experience............my best to you and
Date: 11/30/00 10:28:53 PM
Thanks FONZ, for your time spent in writing that post, it was the most INFORMATIVE I have received kind of the answer I was looking for. I never work more than an hour when doing $40 to $45.00 jobs, in fact I restriped 6 spaces today with 7 lines at a 10 to 12 ft. length each for $40.00 and the job took 13 minutes, counting the time I stepped out of the truck poured the paint into the pan started rolling then put the pan up finished. The only problem I have is some times I wonder, with 10 or even 15 spaces, being told to charge $3.00 each that would be $30 to $45, I'd love to charge $75.00 MINIMUM CHARGE but hate to lose the job. NOW I KNOW YOU WIN SOME LOSE SOME, BUT I'M SO DESPERATE FOR JOBS RIGHT NOW I TAKE LESS, JUST GETTING STARTED I DON'T REALLY HAVE TIME TO WAIT. BUT AFTER YOUR ADVICE I AM SETTING A $75.00 MINIMUM. BUT I HAVE SO MANY PEOPLE THAT SAY THEY ALREADY HAVE SOME ONE OR THEY ARE NOT INTERESTED, SOMETIMES I'M ABLE TO TALK THEM INTO IT, BUT THAT'S BAD WHEN YOU HAVE TO "SALES PITCH" THEM IN TO IT, I GUESS. ANYWAY NOT KNOWING WHAT THE JOBS ARE REALLY WORTH WHEN THEIR OVER A MINIMUM, I FEEL I MIGHT BE CHARGING TO MUCH. FONZ, I HAVE AN EXAMPLE BELOW MAYBE YOU CAN TELL ME WHAT THIS JOB IS WORTH TO YOU:
RYAN'S STEAKHOUSE: 165 PARKING SPACES 3 H.C.'S W/HATCHES 13 ARROWS 30 BUMPERS/CAR STOPS 330 FT. 4" MISC. LINES
I CAME UP WITH AROUND $930, $1080.00 WITH THE BUMPERS, HE SAID HE DIDN'T WANT TO WORRY ABOUT THE BUMPERS BUT I FEEL THAT AN EXTRA $150.00 TO DO 'EM MIGHT CHANGE HIS MIND BUT WILL $1000 FOR A RE-STRIPE TURN HIM OFF, I JUST DON'T REALIZE THE VALUE I GUESS, I THOUGHT ABOUT GOING AS LOW AS $850.00 WITHOUT BUMPERS. YOUR HELP IS APPRECIATED, FONZ. AND I DO PLAN ON BUYING BOOKMAN'S BOOK, AND ATTENDING NPE IN ATLANTA
Date: 12/1/00 10:03:55 AM
Nobody likes to mention exact prices when you can't see the job or know the conditions. Unless you're forgetting to mention something about the job to make it cost more, over here in Texas you would be easily under-bid by most anybody. Look forward to meeting you in Atlanta.
Date: 12/1/00 10:28:42 AM
I thought I would add a couple of things to the great posting by the Fonz. Don’t sell yourself short. Think of the time that you spend getting the job and the time it takes to do the job. If I don’t make around 50.00 per hour when I work on the job, its not worth it. If you get every job you bid on your doing something wrong. When I first started, I got my pricing from a guy who was twice the standard in our area. But after talking with people and finding out what the area rates are I have changed them. To this day I am always trying to find out what the going price is. If you want a starter machine, Titan makes their 3100 that you can get for about 2500.00. To start a business that’s a pretty good start up cost that you can pay back real fast. As far as the grinder, use blackout paint and tint it to match the color of the asphalt. It much faster, and the grinder does damage the asphalt when you remove the lines.
Date: 12/1/00 3:51:46 PM
OK, ON MY JOB I HAVE BEEN DISCUSSING, GRINDING IS A MUST THE LAY-OUT MUST BE CHANGED THE OLD REMOVED. I'D LOVE TO ASK SOME-ONE IN TEXAS OR NEAR ME IN ALEXANDRIA LA. TO RENT OR LOAN ME THEIR GRINDER, BUT I KNOW NO-ONE IS PROBABLY WILLING TO DO THAT, SO IF NOT WOULD SOME-ONE BE WILLING TO EITHER SUB-CONTRACT, OR RENT. I CAN'T FIND ANYTHING AT THE RENT IT COMPANIES HERE, MAYBE THEY ARE NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE TERM "STRIPIE GRINDER" THE NEAREST ONE IS AN EDCO IN DES MOINES IA., FOR $85.00 A DAYAND $30.00 AN HOUR FOR THE WEAR ON THE BLADE, AND $4000 FOR A NEW/USED ONE THAT WAS PREVIOUSLY RENTED.
Date: 12/1/00 7:33:38 PM
Not all rental stores are the same. Most serve homeowners and light construction. Your best bet for a concrete planer will be at a rental store geared ONLY for heavy construction. These places rent backhoes, light towers, BIG trenchers, manlifts, etc. I don't want to dampen your enthusiasm, but you need to PRIORITIZE your prospective customers. It seems at this point you are calling on everyone who needs restriping PERIOD. That would be ok if you had all the equipment needed for a broad range of jobs, but right now you don't have all that. So concentrate on the jobs you are equipped to handle & forget the others. You can always go back to them later.
Your "bad" experiences regarding payment is a learning experience that will serve you well, once you get established. Most of these customers are bs artists who recognize you are inexperienced and invariably believe they are appointed by God to help "educate" you and receive a "freebie" for going to all the trouble. That's why you need to write down what you are "authorized" to do & have the customer sign it. If they won't sign, walk out and look for a VALID customer. The best advice I can give you or anyone else is simply this: LOOK FOR EVERY POSSIBLE REASON TO DECLINE BIDDING ON EACH AND EVERY JOB. That includes the job's difficulty, the need for special equipment and knowledge, more workers than you have in your crew, and any "bad vibes" you sense from the PO/PM.
As you gain experience, jobs that seem formidable become less so, but try to do your EDUCATIONAL/EXPERIENCE BUILDING projects when it fits your schedule.
The next most valuable advice is this: ASK YOURSELF IF EVERYTHING GOES WRONG ON THIS JOB AND I DON'T GET PAID FOR IT, WILL I SURVIVE THE EXPERIENCE. To help you gain experience regarding good & bad jobs & people, try this: Buy a thick spiral bound notebook with 4 or 5 sections to it. Title the sections PROFITABLE JOBS, UNPROFITABLE JOBS, and PEOPLE TO AVOID. At the end of your day make the appropriate entries concerning your successes or failures on the jobs. Within a few months, you'll see each category profiled in detail. With experience, more equipment, and better equipment, you can re-evaluate UNPROFITABLE JOBS & PEOPLE TO AVOID. Some of the people you were unsuccessful in controlling can be controlled through written contracts/proposals and the demand for "FRONT MONEY' for materials and equipment.
Date: 12/2/00 12:06:33 AM
Thanks again, but I was told by the rent it company they do have a concrete planar, but it is not what I need to use, they said it would gouge the concrete too much and be very noticeable, what I am looking for is a "TRAFFIC LINE REMOVER" and they don't carry it because there is no demand here. So my next option is to PRESSURE WASH IT WITH A 4000 PSI/4.0 GPM A COMMERCIAL CONTRACTOR SAID IF IT'S LATEX, HE'LL GET IT UP, OTHERWISE WET SAND BLASTING WILL DEFINETELY GET THE OIL-BASE UP. WHAT DO Y'ALL THINK? I CAN RENT ONE AFFORDABLY, THE SAND IS A LITTLE MORE PER BAG WITH THE RENT-IT-COMPANY, BUT STILL AFFORDABLE, $4.79 A BAG. WONDER HOW MUCH SAND REMOVES A 4" X 18FT. STRIPE?
Date: 12/3/00 9:29:47 PM
My line grinder cost me 1750.00 with a set of carbide blades, free shipping. from SASO Company. I know Robert has the same one and it works great. Sound like you can buy on and pay for it this job.
From: Robert Liles
Date: 12/4/00 5:36:19 PM
Not the SASO company!!! They are too expensive. What Jim meant to say is the SASE Company. Ours is handy for small jobs especially on concrete. You can make the lines go away without doing much damage to the surface. Here's the link: http://www.sasecompany.com/va0.htm Also check out http://www.carbidecutters.com/Flash/index.html
Date: 12/5/00 6:12:01 PM
I'M NOT SURE, YOU THINK I CAN PAY FOR IT THIS JOB? I HAVE 60 PARKING SPACES TO TAKE UP AND 3 39" H.C'S WITH BORDER AND 2 HATCHES 8FT. WIDE X 18' LONG, THAT'S ALL NO OTHER MISC. LINES, I KNOW NOT TO DISCUSS PRICES BUT DIDN'T SEE ANYWAY ELSE TO FIND ROUND ABOUT WHAT TO CHARGE? HELL, I CHECKED INTO A GOOD PRESSURE CLEANING SERVICE TO SUBCONTRACT IT OUT, HE WANTS $75 AN HOUR IF IT'S LATEX TO WATER BLAST IT, IF OIL, IT'LL TAKE WET SANDBLASTING HE WANTS $77.00 AN HOUR, I FIGURE I COULD BLAST IT MYSELF FOR AROUND $50 HOUR, AND IF USING THE STRIPE GRINDER, I HAVE TO GUESS.
From: After Midnight
Date: 12/2/00 3:47:00 PM
No one has suggested having a sandblasting company remove the lines. The last price I heard around here was $0.50 a foot. (Remember I am Canadian) Then someone has to sweep up the lot. The other option is to use a 7" angle grinder and a cup stone, a dust mask and lots of time to grind them off. If there is no power nearby a generator is also required. This is a little less messy than sandblasting, you can sweep up the grindings with a hand broom. As to some of your other comments, make sure you don't lose money on any jobs and you will be a lot further ahead. This may mean turning some down because they want to set the price.
BLACK OUT PAINT
From: TEAMC (HERB)
Date: 8/2/00 12:29:24 PM
WHEN YOU HAVE TO BLACK OUT THE OLD STRIPES BEFORE STRIPING A LOT DO YOU CHARGE LIKE IT WAS TWO JOBS, OR DO YOU GIVE THEM A BREAK ON THE BLACK OUT JOB. HAVE TO BLACK ONE OUT AND RE-LAY OUT THE COMPLETE LOT. THE LAST GUY DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO MEASURE ANGLE PARKING, SPACES ARE ABOUT 7'8" WIDE THANLS FOR ANY ANSWERS,,, I HAVE NEVER PRICED A BLACK OUT
Date: 8/2/00 1:58:58 PM
When I blackout I charge them just like it was a line. I try to put the paint in the machine and spray it when ever I can. I do not think there is difference which color you spray. Most of the time Black and blue paint costs more, So you are giving them a break already.
Date: 8/2/00 9:32:26 PM
What's wrong with 7' 8" wide angle spaces?? huh? its wide enough to park my Hog !! I agree with Jpanz, Paint costs more, more work for you, charge more. besides after you black them out you have to figure how you’re gonna make those spaces 4 inches wider.
Date: 8/3/00 5:42:22 AM
A stripe is a stripe and we charge accordingly. I would suggest using gray "black out" paint on concrete as the contrast of black stripes on light concrete will be visually confusing to drivers, especially at night. Remember 8'6" is a minimum but always try to get the customer to go for 9' or 10' if possible. If I recall you're in NM and probably have as many Excursions-Suburbans-duallys etc. as we do around here.
Date: 8/3/00 6:56:19 PM
I agree with the previous posts. We had a very large lot for GM last year - [had to agree to some union signatory thing, had to go through their safety seminar, had to wear hard hats, steel toe boots and safety glasses but we were nowhere near a construction area]. Anyhow, we charged dearly for the required hassle, calculated each line as actually 1.5 lines because you can rarely spray 4" to cover old lines that have been restriped many times. We charged restripe prices for the blackout and charged new layout prices for the new stall lines.
We made a killing on this job and got it because of our professionalism. The person who gave us the contract said we were more than twice any other quote but the other quotes were from people who did not show up with a measuring wheel, safety glasses [they are always in my truck - mostly because I like to shoot] and a clipboard for notes when we met to go over the job before quoting. Then our quote was VERY detailed and professional.
From: Hammer Head
Date: 8/8/00 9:16:20 PM
We always charge to black-out line. It cost you money for the paint. I have seen a lot of angled parking that was not 9' wide. They must have forgotten about sine law. We have a hard time telling customers that you get less stalls with angle parking compared with 90 degree. They just don't understand.
From: Robert Z.
Date: 10/30/00 9:37:00 AM
Can anyone recommend a good durable product for blacking out old markings on asphalt? How about asphalt sealcoating sold by Home Depot in 5 gallon buckets?
Date: 10/30/00 1:15:55 PM
Cheap sealer...bad idea. You just seal the old paint and when the sealer wears off the paint's still there. (Saw a shopping center done this way once when they changed layouts, confused the heck out of everybody about a year later when both the new and old stripes looked about the same) Most striping paint manufacturers make "Blackout" paint. Being a paint this usually sticks to the old stripe better. It's best to use this before sealcoating if a change is desired when sealing. For best long-term results, let old stripes get as worn as possible before covering them up with anything (or if they are too new use other methods described on this board to partially remove them first).
Date: 10/30/00 7:26:38 PM
We use a black traffic paint from Sherwin Williams and it works great. If we can get the customer to pay the extra bucks, we always try to sell grinding old lines that are not yet worn. Black paint is much cheaper but we keep the grinder in the trailer for those who want it done permanently.
Date: 10/31/00 9:21:05 AM
We did a blackout job recently where we had 400' of cross hatch over new asphalt. The customer was very concerned with the lines still showing after being blacked out. So I suggested blacking them out then sealcoating over the entire section. This worked very well since blacked out lines tend to shine and stand out somewhat even over new asphalt. The sealcoat blended it in very nicely. (This was a new construction project so it may not be necessary for all situations) But it worked out for this one.
Spilled some paint on a new parking lot..........
Date: 7/14/00 5:26:36 PM
Does anyone know how I can get about a gallon or two of spilled oil base paint up off of a new asphalt parking lot without having to use a pressure washer....Thanks......
Date: 7/15/00 12:09:52 AM
Black-out paint.....instant eraser....A Stripers best friend
Date: 7/15/00 12:33:33 PM
In the first place oil base paint on new asphalt? Some folks never listen... yes you can "get away" with using it but on new asphalt or new sealer ALWAYS use latex. Now that you've spilled some I imagine the paint has dissolved the top portion of the asphalt (unless it's been cleaned up to a very thin coat). The only problem with Fonz's suggestion is that the blackout will wear off someday and the big paint blob could still be there. Depending on how thick the spilled paint is, how big the area, how prominent the placing in the parking lot, would dictate your best method. Be careful trying pressure washing, because it was oil based if it's thick you can easily blast off the top 1/4 to 1/2" of asphalt right along with it. If you know one, ask a good asphalt contractor in your area to look at it for you and make a suggestion. PS: Having spilled a full 5 gal. in the center entrance drive lane of a grocery store many years ago I believe big sheets of cardboard are a striper's best friend for mixing, refilling the striper, etc.
Date: 7/16/00 12:05:44 AM
I carry a painters tarp, maybe 10' by 15..........not a drop goes in the machine unless the machine is on the tarp. My tarp looks like a Van Gough.....paint all over it...but not a drop on the parking lot. It's one of the many tips I picked up from Bookmans book when I first started.
From: Robert Liles
Date: 7/16/00 6:50:32 AM
We use 30 lb. felt paper. Also good for masking bumpers and curbs. And you can cut a quick stencil if you have to.
From: Robert Liles
Date: 7/15/00 4:29:53 PM
You might ask Ken how he handles this. I seem to remember, one day during his apprenticeship, he forgot he had a bucket of paint on the tailgate of the truck. I'm not sure what all he did to clean it up, but the results were almost unnoticeable. But then again, it wasn't new asphalt. Heavy spills on new asphalt usually require replacement of the hot mix. If you can attack it quickly, and if it's small, grab dirt, mulch, kitty litter, or whatever and start soaking and sweeping it up. I usually keep some portland cement in the truck for spills on concrete. Works good if you get to it before the paint dries.
From: ken \\\STRIPES/// stripespls.com
Date: 7/17/00 1:20:13 PM
OUCH! Robert, you really got me! I thought you had forgotten about that by now. I wish I could think up a way to blame it on the Fonz but it was over 8 years ago!! Nothing like payback by way of public humiliation! :-) If memory serves me (which is the exception rather than the norm), it was a full unopened 5 gallon pail of yellow chlorinated rubber (unopened at least until it hit the ground). It broke the seal and lost about a gallon. I was mortified. Not knowing any better, I used gasoline to clean the mess. The solvent effect of the gasoline made the asphalt kind of black itself out. Not a recommended procedure.
On a different note, we have successfully started landscaping and irrigation. It has turned out to be a very good mix with the other parking lot work. We don't have to dodge the landscaper. It gets us more work because it is one less scheduling headache for the builder. Gross revenues are multiplied several times. Everyone comes out ahead except the landscaper.
We recently finished a new Popeye's corporate store...their "flagship." We got rave reviews from corporate management and the builder. We did the retaining wall, ADA signage, wheel stops pavement markings, etc. Most everything outside the building. Please take a look at a few pictures Marybeth posted at our website stripespls.com We're very proud of the way it turned out.
Date: 7/15/00 10:47:38 PM
We use a wire brush to clean up bad shots. We can erase for up to 15 minutes. For a gallon of paint I would wipe the paint up, let it set up a little, wire brush it, and if needed put a little black beauty sand on top of the 5% of paint that did not come off. I would rather clean oil base paint up than latex. How do you guys clean latex up??????THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR HELP!!!!!!!!!
Date: 7/16/00 7:10:00 AM
We carry wire brooms anyway in case we have to remove caked on mud or something and have used them to clean small goofs on old asphalt. We even have the brush attachment for our 11hp Billy Goat Slot Machine for removing flaking stripes etc. Fonz's tarp idea is great for those who don't use flatbeds like us (I guess it would be hard to fold cardboard in a van). All the "soak up" suggestions (kitty litter, sand, oil sorb, etc.) are good for old asphalt or concrete... this guy's problem is he spilled a chemical that dissolves asphalt on new asphalt... and since he posted here it's probably too late to soak up now. FYI you clean up latex with soap and WATER! Anyone who intends to be a professional striper should understand the different types of paints (conventional latex and alkyd and their fast-dry versions, chlorinated rubber, flats semi-gloss, etc.) and the proper uses for each. Otherwise you'll never be able to address all the problems discussed here with different surfaces, varying weather conditions, etc. Some spray easier, alkyds clean out of the machine easiest, but all have their place. We all have our favorites but it's not so much a matter of what YOU like as it is what the CUSTOMER needs for that job if you are a professional contractor doing quality work.
Date: 7/16/00 7:16:02 AM
Didn't intend to leave my name off the previous post (heck, Robert and I even use our real names) didn't want Fonz to think I had become one of those no-name pansies.
Date: 7/15/00 11:06:34 PM
How would a handheld electric scarfir work???
Date: 7/17/00 10:29:26 PM
I think you best way out of this mess without that much cost or damage to the asphalt would be Infrared Patching. If they are good they can make the spill disappear without a trace of the spill. The best part is nothing happens to the asphalt and everyone is happy.
Date: 8/31/00 10:36:00 PM
If you paint fresh asphalt a lot, sooner or later you are going to have a spill. I use latex on new asphalt, but it hard to beat oil on stencil work. Any way I like all the ideas. I would wait until it dried then wire brush and black paint. I would try mixing white and black paint to the match color. If they do not except the job then new asphalt patch. "Fonz" I use card board that I find laying around the job site, but to each his own. I need new card board on each job. Good Luck Everyone has been there so don't fill like a virgin.
Blue Over Yellow Paint
Date: 3/25/00 8:06:10 AM
I have a customer that wants to change his H/C stencils to blue (they're yellow now). I tried to talk him out of it but he still wants it done. Will I have a problem if I just paint over them with blue?
Date: 3/25/00 10:18:44 AM
i'm not real clear on your problem but i think the existing stencils may only be the chair stencil. you should try painting a blue box over the existing stencil to cover it completely then spray your chair over it. see an example of this , go to WWW.CityStriping.com go to the photos page.
Date: 3/25/00 10:21:17 AM
i paint the blue box with a roller, it's much easier than switching colors. good luck!
Date: 3/25/00 11:40:46 AM
I'd suggest giving the customer the option of water blasting the old paint with a turbo nozzle. (Water blasting is a term I learned from Robert........the same as power washing but more impressive.) If it doesn't come up, you won't need to worry about the new (blue) paint failing. Also, if the customer accepts the power wash/waterblasting you will be doing him or her a service, plus you won't be leaving any money on the table.
Date: 3/25/00 5:19:59 PM
Here's where my 5 gallon handy dandy bucket of "Black-out Paint" comes in!!.........The stuff saves my butt all the time!!...Instant eraser!!!........I bought a plastic 4 wheeled dolly to move the bucket around the lot. The last thing I do on every job site is get out my bucket of black-out and fix every little mistake I've made. I use a 4 inch roller on a pole to erase my mistakes. I then just unscrew the pole and leave the roller in the bucket and put the lid on. I just wish I could find something that would work as easy on concrete.
So to answer your question, I'd paint that old yellow logo with black-out paint first before applying any Blue paint. A solid blue background would be best if you could.
But Ken had the BEST Answer bar none..........Blast it off with a pressure washer if you can..........Always remember..."If all else fails..BLAST"!!!!!!.....lol
Date: 3/26/00 9:39:08 AM
I keep forgetting "you guys" up north work primarily on asphalt. Black paint is such a luxury when working on asphalt. Most of my work here is on new concrete so we carry a 25lb sledge hammer......not for correcting the mistake but for pounding the ground next door to relieve my frustrations for screwing up. I make my fair share of mistakes. Out of necessity, I have noticed that concrete parking lots will assume the same "tint" as the surrounding soil. So, it is nearly impossible to adequately "gray-out" mistakes especially when striping with petroleum based paint. The gray paint never matches. If the glitch isn't too big, we have had very good luck by first removing the excess paint (before it dries completely if possible). Then we apply mixture of portland cement, water and a little soil from adjacent area. This works well after sand blasting or grinding where paint was not completely removed.
From: Greg Kennedy
Date: 3/29/00 10:28:49 PM
black out paint, is it just seal coat?
Date: 3/30/00 10:59:08 PM
No, it's not seal coat. It's an extra thick black alkyd paint formulated to "black-out" parking lot lines. Nasty stuff if you get it on your hands or clothing. The darn stuff wears like iron and just doesn't want to come off.
Date: 3/26/00 8:30:25 AM
Sorry I didn't make myself clear. There is no painted background, he just wants the chair to be painted blue instead of yellow. Thanks for your responses.
Date: 3/26/00 8:16:41 PM
should be ok, paint it.