Cool Weather Painting
Note: these archives were compiled from past Parking Lot Planet Forums. The answers and opinions are those of the posters. Things may have changed since then, so be sure to get up to date information from the current Parking Lot Planet forum
COOL WEATHER PAINT
Date: 11/21/99 9:27:39 PM
THE LABEL ON THE PAINT I NORMALLY USE (LATEX, BY GLIDDEN ) SAYS USE ONLY WHEN TEMPS ARE 60 DEGREES OR HIGHER. THIS WEEK IN WISCONSIN, THE HIGHS ARE ONLY LOW 50'S. WILL IT STILL BE SAFE TO USE THIS PAINT ( IN OTHER WORDS, ARE THE MANUFACTURERS EXTRA CAUTIOUS, JUST TO COVER THEMSELVES), AND IF I CAN'T USE IT, ARE THERE ANY "LOWER TEMP" LATEXES THAT COULD BE RECOMMENDED???
Date: 11/21/99 9:28:13 PM
White collar corporate mentality frequently demands service at the wrong time of the year because they have a budget that must be spent before the end of the year! Be sure to disclaim temperature related problems in your proposal. Be sure to keep detailed records so you can track your successes and failures. That way, you can help protect your reputation. Although all paint manufacturers and far too many contractors think of proper temperature as being related to only the temperature of the air, there are several other components that ultimately determine whether your paint will last. Here are the other components, listed in no particular order of importance: Pavement type: Asphalt or portland cement concrete. If asphalt, is it reasonably black, oxidized gray or white, or sealed with coal tar or asphalt emulsion? The darker the color of the pavement, the more solar heat it will absorb. Sky: Clear, cloudy, overcast, etc. This affects the amount of solar heat boost you can expect. Soil temperature: This is an agricultural forecast generally given at a depth of 4 inches, and it's more important than most sealcoaters and stripers realize. It determines what temperature the pavement will reach during the day, and how cold it will get at night. During the winter season, air temps may reach 60°F, but the slab of pavement may remain at 30°F. It all depends on the temperature ranges of the previous week, so don't overlook this. Shade: Some portions of a parking lot may be shaded by trees or a building. Maybe you can paint part of the parking lot, but not all of it. It may not be easy for you to take charge of the situation and TELL YOUR CUSTOMER WHAT HE NEEDS TO KNOW, NOT WHAT HE WANTS TO HEAR! Solar orientation: Does the parking lot slope to the south or southwest? Those portions will be warmer than areas sloping north or east. Priority painting: Try to paint with the sun as it tracks across the sky. Maybe you can only paint 1/2 or 1/3 of the lot each day to obtain complete dryness by sunset. If I was working in your climate, I'd spend $200-300 for a point and shoot thermometer gun and know what the surface temperature was before I painted. Remember, the best contractors are lucky mainly because they engineer their good luck. Maybe this sounds like a lot of work, but it really isn't. With a little practice, all of this information will roll off your tongue with ease, and it will impress the hell out of your customers, because very few of your competitors are going to say it. You simply point out all the factors that will determine the success or failure of the project and say, IN MY OPINION, IF WE PAINT TODAY, THERE IS A ____% CHANCE THE PAINT WILL SURVIVE THE WINTER SEASON IN SATISFACTORY CONDITION. DO YOU AUTHORIZE ME TO PAINT TODAY AND ASSUME TOTAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE WORK? Then get a signature on your written disclaimer. In other words, put the monkey on your customers' backs where it belongs.
Date: 11/21/99 9:28:38 PM
I painted a lot 3 years ago, I used paint by linear dynamics , their fast dry waterborne. It was 30 degrees out and sunny, I recommended against painting but they needed the job done to occupy the building. It went down well and still looks good today. (normal wear and tear) The only place it didn’t stick was on the ice.
Date: 11/21/99 9:29:12 PM
We shot about 50 gallons of waterborne today, sunny, dry, 40 to 65f temp. Did fine. The paint we used is Sherwin Willy Hot Line, their 1952D spec. We like this paint. I don't think any paint company would recommend striping at 30 degrees with anything, especially waterbourne, but we have used chlorinated rubber at that temp and it did fine as long as we kept our paint in a warm place until we put it in the machine. When it gets cold it's too stiff to spray. Cold don't seem to affect the hotline that way.
Date: 11/21/99 9:29:41 PM
Cool weather is the time to switch from latex to chlorinated rubber type paint. This paint is formulated to dry well in cooler temperatures. Nothing else works better in the cool (35-65 degrees)temps. If specs require latex Sherwin-Williams Set-Fast Acrylic is about as good as it gets, although it is still not recommended for lower than 50 degrees we have used it in slightly cooler temps with fairly good success.
Date: 11/21/99 9:30:16 PM
There really is not any paint company who will say to use their paint below 50 degrees. 50 degrees is the lowest there is.
I have found its more the temp of the asphalt then the air temp that makes it last longer. We did a job where it was 65 during the day and 35 at night and the paint did not hold up at all, and its put down in the warmest part of the day. If you spray when its cold, don’t expect the paint to hold up as it would in the summer.
Date: 11/25/99 8:56:58 PM
I was reading the spec sheet from Sherwin Williams on their low voc oil paint. The sheet says it must be 40 degrees or higher. This is the only paint I have seen with a 40 degree min.
Date: 11/29/99 9:51:12 AM
Remember that surface temp and air temp varies. If it is below 40 deg. on a sunny day, measure the surface temp with an infrared thermometer, it could be as high as 60 deg. or more, especially on asphalt. Go to http://www.grainger.com They have a new raytek that is smaller and less expensive. (about $100.00)
Date: 11/29/99 10:10:51 AM
The part number for the thermometer is 4XX06. Git one, its a great tool!
KEEPING PAINT WARM
Date: 12/1/99 2:13:28 AM
I ALMOST ALWAYS LIKE TO SPRAY CHLORINATED RUBBER PAINT. I CAN GET GOOD LINES EVEN IN THE UPPER 3O'S IF I KEEP MY PAINT WARM OR I CAN THIN IT BACK TO NORMAL VISCOSIT AS IT THICKENS DUE TO THE COLD OUTSIDE TEMPERATURE.(I'D MUCH RATHER KEEP IT WARM THAN THIN IT HEAVILY)
MY QUESTION IS, HAS ANYONE USED EITHER A WARMING PAD TO KEEP A STRIPING MACHINE'S 5 GALLON PAINT CAN WARM OR SOME KIND OF WARMING BOX TO COIL 50' OF PAINT HOSE THROUGH?
I GUESS YOU'D HAVE TO HAVE A 12 VOLT BATTERY & POSSIBLY A DC CONVERTER, SO WOULD IT BE MORE WORK THAN IT'S WORTH? PLUS, IT MIGHT BE A DANGEROUS SET UP WITH PAINT FUMES? BUT -- IT WOULD BE COOL TO BE ABLE TO KEEP YOUR PAINT WARM!
Date: 12/1/99 12:46:27 PM
You can try a couple of things. Sleep with it or get you an inverter, 300 watt minimum and buy a drum heater. INDCO part no. DH-5-115-TS at 800-942-4383.
I personally store my paint in a warm area of the shop and use hot water heater jackets when I carry it to the job. You can make about 3 to 4 can jackets out of one hot water heater jacket.
Date: 12/17/99 7:22:39 PM
Last year I striped a lot in which most of the lines flaked off. I assumed I must have used one of my "old stock" buckets that might have frozen over the winter. Can anyone shed some light on what actually happens to latex when it has been frozen and thawed, why it doesn't adhere to the pavement? It may be elementary to you but humor me and throw me some technical advice... thanks guys.
Date: 12/17/99 8:55:25 PM
I think because it damages the solids in the paint itself. Since striping paint is almost 60 % solids, the solids will not adhere after a freeze.
I gave it a shot. Jim
Date: 12/20/99 11:21:30 AM
Just wondering...did you stripe it with an airless or air atomized rig? One reason I lean toward airless is because the paint is applied at higher pressure. Seems to me it would cause the paint to stay better because it is injected into crooks, crannies and pores of the surface. Any other opinions guys?
Date: 12/20/99 4:27:24 PM
This was explained to me a couple of times but the details were not as important as knowing that you shouldn't use the paint once it has frozen. All the molecular doohickeys get screwed when frozen. Kinda like nuken 'em. It can't handle the expansion and retraction. Ever stuck a bottle of dr. pepper in the freezer and forgot about it. Here is a little piece from the paint guy. Below 50 degrees, latex paints dry more slowly, especially when high humidity is present. This hinders coalescence, which can lead to poor film-forming, lack of surface adhesion and premature paint failure.
Some manufacturers offer latex paints that can be applied at temperatures as low as 36 degrees F. These specially formulated products contain coalescing agents that aid in film-forming during lower temperatures. Check with your local independent paint retailer for information about these products.
Another thing to consider about seasonal painting is the amount of daylight. When the days are short, there is less daylight available to aid in drying. If you're using a solvent-based paint, which dries by oxidation, daylight is especially critical. So, be sure to paint early in the day so that light is present to add in the drying process.
Also consider the effect of heavy dew. Humidity affects the drying time of all paints, but especially latexs. Most manufacturers recommend that at least two hours be allowed for paint to dry before sunset if cool temperatures and heavy dew are expected that evening.
Finally, keep in mind that cooler temperatures may extend the time before the paint reaches serviceability or hardness.
Hope this helps, don't mean squat, but it'll help you remember not to do it again!
Ya'll have a Merry Christmas.
New lot - cold weather
Date: 11/21/99 9:05:06 PM
Construction of a new lot is scheduled to be finished during the last week of November. It must be striped for about 25 spaces. Which paint would work best if the low's will be in the 30's and high's in the 50's on new asphalt. Alkyd or chlorinated rubber or something else? Thank you for any assistance.
Date: 11/21/99 9:05:42 PM
Try To stripe the lot right after the paver finished. The asphalt will stay warm for hours. If it is warm out and the pavement is warm the latex paint should dry completely before the temps fall. Also, use the largest tip your machine can handle, the fresh asphalt will suck the paint into it real fast. I have used a .23 tip and the lines hold up real good. Some people do not like to use oil based paint on new asphalt because it causes cracking on the edge of the lines. But if it is cold and it must be done use oil.
From: Richard -and it's cold in Oregon
Date: 11/9/00 11:11:38 AM
It snowed lightly last night and it is forecast to be in the 30's at night - 40's daytime for the next week. I have four jobs scheduled right now all on new asphalt or new sealcoating. So apparently I must use oil(alkyd) paint to deal with the temp(when a warmer day comes along.) But...later on in this discussion group everyone says never use oil on these surfaces sooo - Catch 22. What do I do?
Date: 11/21/99 9:06:17 PM
Don't use either one the paints while the temperature is in the 30's. Wait until it is at least in the 50's with the sun out and use the water base. You don't want the solvents in the chlorinated rubber to screw up the new asphalt. You must tell the customer that you will need to come back in a couple of months for another coat. The new asphalt will suck up all the paint.
Date: 11/22/99 10:53:33 AM
I just finished a lot for the hospital yesterday. Temp was 45. I don't know about anyone else but I keep my paint warm in my basement until I go to stripe the lot this time of year. The paint isn't thick and it sprays fine. Hope this helps.